sdrblr
03-03 01:41 PM
what you guys think.
Will this economy slow down and people returing back to there motherland have any effects on PD?
How many of the returning people would call USCIS to cancel their 485s? I see almost zero.
Will this economy slow down and people returing back to there motherland have any effects on PD?
How many of the returning people would call USCIS to cancel their 485s? I see almost zero.
wallpaper Terminator Salvation#39;s McG to
billu
09-04 08:33 AM
I think there is more smartness needed than luck in the greencard process. If you look at the posts in this thread there are some people that came to USA in 1990s and still waiting, while some that came much later are on their way to citizenship. Some got the EB2 route and are happy and some in EB3 have only gloom before them.
This in my opinion has helped smart folks among us:
- They applied for GC as soon as possible. Those who waited did not give importance to Greencard as soon as they started a job in USA are now paying for their mistakes. During the initial days of career I have seen people saying that GC is not important to them etc but when their H1B is about to expire they panic and get desperate for Green Card.
- Before pre-PERM era in 2005, smart folks took up jobs in states where labor certification had no backlog. They are now either waiting for citizenship or already citizens. On the other hand people in states like CA, NY etc suffered due to labor backlogs and far from getting greencard in hand.
- Any company can be good or bad for an individual. It it not a question of consulting vs fortune 500 or small vs big size of a company. Smart folks know what matters them the most when they join a company. When company sees them as a valuable asset, it applies for them. I have seen where company applied for GC as soon as the employee joined it. And I have seen posts where people had to wait for several years before company applied.
- People who took advantage of the Labor substitution got faster labors. Some could take advantage of EB2 labors and they are very fortunate. This is in no way endorsing the labor substitution rule, but in pre 2007 times nobody was protesting against it. This is a sad reality.
- Smart folks took the risk and changed jobs wth EB2 job requirements, so that they can file in EB2. Such folks with 2007 PD are happy today and people with 2003 PDs in EB3 will have to wait for a long time.
- If you read posts on this thread, many people have posted that they feel they are being screwed by their employer or lawyer. But hardly anyone has said they took any action against it. This is also a sad reality where we as a community have failed and will continue to suffer.
- Many folks have said that they thought they were in EB2. But found they are in EB3. This shows another weakness of our community and lack of awareness. IV forum tries to spread the awareness but unless an individual takes initiative, they will suffer.
Many people were able to file I485 in July 2007 due to IV effort. Imagine a 2004 EB3 India person without EAD today? How will he survive a job loss on H1B in a bad economy? We should take a lesson from that event and try for another big push. There is no other shortcut for us. It is shocking to find people on this thread that are in this country for more than 10 years and without a green card. These folks should be the most vocal folks in this effort.
-
great analysis of the GC queue. Those who missed the july 2007 boat (despite working here)or those who started GC 2-3 years after starting a job have themselves to blame. I am one of them. Also, I have several friends who are working on h1b with ridiculous contracts with no sign of GC being filed. They are blissfully ignorant of the GC mess despite my warnings. Each year thousands of students still come from India on F1 and most of them later file h1b and GC. I wish they were made aware of this mess. Most of us have the famous "chalta hai" attitude of india that smirks of no farsightedness or pre-planning due to which we are in this mess, especially folks on EB3.
This in my opinion has helped smart folks among us:
- They applied for GC as soon as possible. Those who waited did not give importance to Greencard as soon as they started a job in USA are now paying for their mistakes. During the initial days of career I have seen people saying that GC is not important to them etc but when their H1B is about to expire they panic and get desperate for Green Card.
- Before pre-PERM era in 2005, smart folks took up jobs in states where labor certification had no backlog. They are now either waiting for citizenship or already citizens. On the other hand people in states like CA, NY etc suffered due to labor backlogs and far from getting greencard in hand.
- Any company can be good or bad for an individual. It it not a question of consulting vs fortune 500 or small vs big size of a company. Smart folks know what matters them the most when they join a company. When company sees them as a valuable asset, it applies for them. I have seen where company applied for GC as soon as the employee joined it. And I have seen posts where people had to wait for several years before company applied.
- People who took advantage of the Labor substitution got faster labors. Some could take advantage of EB2 labors and they are very fortunate. This is in no way endorsing the labor substitution rule, but in pre 2007 times nobody was protesting against it. This is a sad reality.
- Smart folks took the risk and changed jobs wth EB2 job requirements, so that they can file in EB2. Such folks with 2007 PD are happy today and people with 2003 PDs in EB3 will have to wait for a long time.
- If you read posts on this thread, many people have posted that they feel they are being screwed by their employer or lawyer. But hardly anyone has said they took any action against it. This is also a sad reality where we as a community have failed and will continue to suffer.
- Many folks have said that they thought they were in EB2. But found they are in EB3. This shows another weakness of our community and lack of awareness. IV forum tries to spread the awareness but unless an individual takes initiative, they will suffer.
Many people were able to file I485 in July 2007 due to IV effort. Imagine a 2004 EB3 India person without EAD today? How will he survive a job loss on H1B in a bad economy? We should take a lesson from that event and try for another big push. There is no other shortcut for us. It is shocking to find people on this thread that are in this country for more than 10 years and without a green card. These folks should be the most vocal folks in this effort.
-
great analysis of the GC queue. Those who missed the july 2007 boat (despite working here)or those who started GC 2-3 years after starting a job have themselves to blame. I am one of them. Also, I have several friends who are working on h1b with ridiculous contracts with no sign of GC being filed. They are blissfully ignorant of the GC mess despite my warnings. Each year thousands of students still come from India on F1 and most of them later file h1b and GC. I wish they were made aware of this mess. Most of us have the famous "chalta hai" attitude of india that smirks of no farsightedness or pre-planning due to which we are in this mess, especially folks on EB3.
sam_hoosier
01-04 11:53 AM
Every country has negatives, and I think people will highlight or hide India's negatives depending on their intentions to go back (or not).;) It helps in justifying one's decision.
Before we start comparing India & China, take a look at how many Chinese immigrants have either gone back or have decided to go back vs. Indians.
If educated & materially well settled people decide to go back to India and work for the betterment of the country, I dont see why things will not improve.
As JFK said - "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
Before we start comparing India & China, take a look at how many Chinese immigrants have either gone back or have decided to go back vs. Indians.
If educated & materially well settled people decide to go back to India and work for the betterment of the country, I dont see why things will not improve.
As JFK said - "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
2011 Arnold Schwarzenegger Pictures
Canadian_Dream
06-02 08:18 PM
You are correct, it only uses I-140 application as a basis of setting the cut-off (Not I-485).
In my opinion:
Date of Introduction: May 15 2007
Effective Date: Oct 01 2008
Scenarios:
Scenario 1: I-140 Filed after Introduction and Approved before effective date. These cases are eligible for Immigrant Visa, whenever available.
Scenario 2: I-140 Filed after Introduction and not approved on the effective date. These cases have to refile.
Scenario 3: I-140 Filed before Introduction and not approved on the effective date. These cases are eligible for Immigrant Visa, whenever available.
Scenario 4: I-140 not filed becasue of backlogged labor. They retain the priority date but have to restart in the new system, whatever that means.
Only bad scenario is 2 and 4. The other bad aspect is reduced supply of immigrant visa 90,000.
Hey Canadian Dream:
I know things might change , i wish this law doesnt pass through at all. But in its form this is interpretation of major members and attorneys in current stage. Please correct me if i am wrong.
I might agree with your conclusion of start date, but Now coming to to cases :
Petetion for an employment based visa = I 140 , that were filed prior to the date of intro ( for our sake its Oct 2008 or May 15 2007 ) that were pending or approved , shall be treated as if such provision remained effective.
An approved petition may server as basis for issuance of an immigrant visa.
and for all people who are still in Labor stage will preserve their priority date.
Now based on this , if you have filed an I140 before the date of enactment what ever it might one should be fine. Once dates becomes current and I140 approved one can file for 485 in previous system.
I dont see any conclusion based on 485 is approved or not its just adjustment of status once PD become current , i think its all 140 that determines you are approved as an immigrant or not.
===========================
40 (2) PENDING AND APPROVED PETITIONS AND APPLICATIONS.�Petitions
41 for an employment-based visa filed for classification under
42 section 203(b)(1), (2), or (3) of the Immigration and Nationality
43 Act (as such provisions existed prior to the enactment of this
44 section) that were filed prior to the date of the introduction of
265
1 the [Insert title of Act] and were pending or approved at the
2 time of the effective date of this section, shall be treated as if
3 such provision remained effective and an approved petition may
4 serve as the basis for issuance of an immigrant visa. Aliens with
5 applications for a labor certification pursuant to section
6 212(a)(5)(A) of the Immigration and Nationality Act shall
7 preserve the immigrant visa priority date accorded by the date
8 of filing of such labor certification application.
In my opinion:
Date of Introduction: May 15 2007
Effective Date: Oct 01 2008
Scenarios:
Scenario 1: I-140 Filed after Introduction and Approved before effective date. These cases are eligible for Immigrant Visa, whenever available.
Scenario 2: I-140 Filed after Introduction and not approved on the effective date. These cases have to refile.
Scenario 3: I-140 Filed before Introduction and not approved on the effective date. These cases are eligible for Immigrant Visa, whenever available.
Scenario 4: I-140 not filed becasue of backlogged labor. They retain the priority date but have to restart in the new system, whatever that means.
Only bad scenario is 2 and 4. The other bad aspect is reduced supply of immigrant visa 90,000.
Hey Canadian Dream:
I know things might change , i wish this law doesnt pass through at all. But in its form this is interpretation of major members and attorneys in current stage. Please correct me if i am wrong.
I might agree with your conclusion of start date, but Now coming to to cases :
Petetion for an employment based visa = I 140 , that were filed prior to the date of intro ( for our sake its Oct 2008 or May 15 2007 ) that were pending or approved , shall be treated as if such provision remained effective.
An approved petition may server as basis for issuance of an immigrant visa.
and for all people who are still in Labor stage will preserve their priority date.
Now based on this , if you have filed an I140 before the date of enactment what ever it might one should be fine. Once dates becomes current and I140 approved one can file for 485 in previous system.
I dont see any conclusion based on 485 is approved or not its just adjustment of status once PD become current , i think its all 140 that determines you are approved as an immigrant or not.
===========================
40 (2) PENDING AND APPROVED PETITIONS AND APPLICATIONS.�Petitions
41 for an employment-based visa filed for classification under
42 section 203(b)(1), (2), or (3) of the Immigration and Nationality
43 Act (as such provisions existed prior to the enactment of this
44 section) that were filed prior to the date of the introduction of
265
1 the [Insert title of Act] and were pending or approved at the
2 time of the effective date of this section, shall be treated as if
3 such provision remained effective and an approved petition may
4 serve as the basis for issuance of an immigrant visa. Aliens with
5 applications for a labor certification pursuant to section
6 212(a)(5)(A) of the Immigration and Nationality Act shall
7 preserve the immigrant visa priority date accorded by the date
8 of filing of such labor certification application.
more...
fromnaija
01-10 06:23 PM
I came here at an old age compared to most of you on this forum. Now I have two kids in college and a third one waiting to enter next year. This is my sixth year here and I have no immediate plan of returning to my home country.
Having a GC will ease the financial burden of seeing my kids through college. Thereafter, we plan on starting a family business that will export technology to my home country (all my sons are studying computer engineering) where opportunities are increasingly available for such ventures.
My wife and I plan to retire and go back home (by which time I hope we would be US citizens). Towards that end we are building our retirement home in Nigeria. As for my sons, I have given up hope that they will ever return to Nigeria to live!
I have two brothers who are already US citizens and have filed for our parents so I don't miss being with my parents as they come and go as they wish.
So to me, the value of the GC will be to eventually get US citizenship, retire and be able to get my social security and medicare and finally go back home with the ability to visit my kids and grand kids in the future.
Having a GC will ease the financial burden of seeing my kids through college. Thereafter, we plan on starting a family business that will export technology to my home country (all my sons are studying computer engineering) where opportunities are increasingly available for such ventures.
My wife and I plan to retire and go back home (by which time I hope we would be US citizens). Towards that end we are building our retirement home in Nigeria. As for my sons, I have given up hope that they will ever return to Nigeria to live!
I have two brothers who are already US citizens and have filed for our parents so I don't miss being with my parents as they come and go as they wish.
So to me, the value of the GC will be to eventually get US citizenship, retire and be able to get my social security and medicare and finally go back home with the ability to visit my kids and grand kids in the future.
pappu
07-25 05:55 PM
Contributed $100 thru PayPal(Transaction ID: 3X3138428V341142D)
Thank you
Thank you
more...
lonedesi
08-11 12:56 PM
Hi All
I am sorry if I post this in wrong place. I dont know how my EB2 I140 approved in 2 months.did any body get approved like this?
Congrats. You are one of those lucky ones. Be thankful to USCIS that you got your I-140 approved so fast.
I am sorry if I post this in wrong place. I dont know how my EB2 I140 approved in 2 months.did any body get approved like this?
Congrats. You are one of those lucky ones. Be thankful to USCIS that you got your I-140 approved so fast.
2010 in Terminator Salvation.
Jimi_Hendrix
11-10 09:53 AM
We now have 5 members in Southern California who have shown interest in participating State Chapter work. I think that is a great start. Thanks for your postings. Once the core team gives us a set of responsibilities we can start rolling.
Thanks.
Thanks.
more...
santb1975
05-24 10:30 PM
We are talking about HR 5882,5921 and 6039. Very few people are working very hard to take all of us a step ahead with the GC process and we have lots of hope and we also have direction. Please check with your state chapter lead for latest updates.
Which bills are you talking about? I read most were dropped from Iraq funding bill that passed recently.
We are just drifting my friend..no direction..no hope....
Which bills are you talking about? I read most were dropped from Iraq funding bill that passed recently.
We are just drifting my friend..no direction..no hope....
hair Arnold Schwarzenegger Possibly
akhilmahajan
12-15 09:26 PM
Moved to MI and applied for license using EAD and expired I-94. Got it for 4 years. I guess I just got lucky.
Thanks.
Thanks.
more...
pmpforgc
03-05 10:42 PM
For all the replies to my post. I understand that there are many others in the same situation I am in, who can understand and feel the injustices of this process.
I understand that we made personal choices and we have to take responsibility for our actions, if something is clear is that h1-B is a NON-EMIGRANT visa. I just wish there was more transparency from the USA government when it comes to apply for PR through employment. The backlogs and collapse of the system, only reflect the lack of interest in solving the problem which in my opinion it's also a reflection of the lack of interest in having any more skilled professionals coming to the US.
Most of the participants in this forum are from India. I appreciate your insights and wisdom, you are well known for being spiritual people who work hard through hardships in life. Many of you have left here important advices and I am grateful for that.
Personally I have done my best to live a life outside this green card ordeal. I have moved on trying to live a normal life without being obsessed with this problem, but as most of you know, reality hits quite often and we are reminded of the limitations that our legal position imposes, more often than not.
I am only regret the rude comment of somebody who replied saying " Give up something you don't have? Live a life". It's true I don't have anything to give up and that is the sad part of all this process. I have invested thousands of dollars from my own pocket, gone under distress and suffered the unfairness of the system in exchange of nothing. Yet.
Thanks for your feedback, and good luck to all you. I hope that someday in the future people from my country, or any country for that matter, wont be forced to leave their families and friends behind because of unbearable live conditions we face.
Just wanted to highlight two sentence from your post, which are contradictory. You yourself said we made personal choice. so it is hard to belive any one is forced to immmigrate from their home country and get away from their family against their own wish. That is only possible if you immigrated or came here as minor and your parents/adopters made those choices for you, which you did not like. But as i understand from you posts, you applied your own H1B, so I assume it was not against yours wishes. And also in your first post you already mentioned that when you first came here your family was very happy for you. So I assume at that time no one from you or your family were worried about UNBEARABLE Living Conditions in US that WE FACE?
I understand that we made personal choices and we have to take responsibility for our actions, if something is clear is that h1-B is a NON-EMIGRANT visa. I just wish there was more transparency from the USA government when it comes to apply for PR through employment. The backlogs and collapse of the system, only reflect the lack of interest in solving the problem which in my opinion it's also a reflection of the lack of interest in having any more skilled professionals coming to the US.
Most of the participants in this forum are from India. I appreciate your insights and wisdom, you are well known for being spiritual people who work hard through hardships in life. Many of you have left here important advices and I am grateful for that.
Personally I have done my best to live a life outside this green card ordeal. I have moved on trying to live a normal life without being obsessed with this problem, but as most of you know, reality hits quite often and we are reminded of the limitations that our legal position imposes, more often than not.
I am only regret the rude comment of somebody who replied saying " Give up something you don't have? Live a life". It's true I don't have anything to give up and that is the sad part of all this process. I have invested thousands of dollars from my own pocket, gone under distress and suffered the unfairness of the system in exchange of nothing. Yet.
Thanks for your feedback, and good luck to all you. I hope that someday in the future people from my country, or any country for that matter, wont be forced to leave their families and friends behind because of unbearable live conditions we face.
Just wanted to highlight two sentence from your post, which are contradictory. You yourself said we made personal choice. so it is hard to belive any one is forced to immmigrate from their home country and get away from their family against their own wish. That is only possible if you immigrated or came here as minor and your parents/adopters made those choices for you, which you did not like. But as i understand from you posts, you applied your own H1B, so I assume it was not against yours wishes. And also in your first post you already mentioned that when you first came here your family was very happy for you. So I assume at that time no one from you or your family were worried about UNBEARABLE Living Conditions in US that WE FACE?
hot schwarzenegger terminator
insbaby
07-21 11:18 AM
Well, if you do the direct calculations (eventhough it looks correct for most of us), it always results scary.
But that does not happen always. A Government Agency decided to accept that many applications in a month window, defintely it would not have been decided in a lunch or dinner meeting.
They should have known their limitations and how to handle the situation. If there are 20K 485 applications sitting at the storage, it would not create much problems. But it creates so much administration issues if the number is 600K applications.
One major issue is, every year they are going to receive 600K EAD renewals. They will never get time to work on 485, but life long working on renewing this EAD's and no more further GC processing.
So, its not going to be the case. Now they have money, even if it takes first year some more months, they may go for hiring more contracters OR spliting the applications across different centers processing them.
Its a big administration issue to the agency to keep all the applications pending than us.
So, no worries. There must be a solution ahead for us.
But that does not happen always. A Government Agency decided to accept that many applications in a month window, defintely it would not have been decided in a lunch or dinner meeting.
They should have known their limitations and how to handle the situation. If there are 20K 485 applications sitting at the storage, it would not create much problems. But it creates so much administration issues if the number is 600K applications.
One major issue is, every year they are going to receive 600K EAD renewals. They will never get time to work on 485, but life long working on renewing this EAD's and no more further GC processing.
So, its not going to be the case. Now they have money, even if it takes first year some more months, they may go for hiring more contracters OR spliting the applications across different centers processing them.
Its a big administration issue to the agency to keep all the applications pending than us.
So, no worries. There must be a solution ahead for us.
more...
house Terminator salvation premiere
map_boiler
07-06 12:01 AM
duplicate thread...admin please merge this with "News Article Thread -3"
tattoo 2010 in Terminator Salvation.
saimrathi
07-06 11:33 AM
Agreed, that would be the biggest impact... But, not all of us would be able to get an opportunity elsewhere in the world.. For example, doctors, scientists... not many countries match US infrastructure..
This is only my view...
As the saying goes..."Justice delayed is Justice Denied"
Considering our opportunity cost, many of us may be better off packing our bags and heading back - this may have an impact on the feds, the companies and people at large who think that WE are a burden on the society. All these artificial barriers and hurdles are a reflection of this.
Its quite apparent that there is no end game in sight, there is no motive here(ref to subash and gandhi message by asharda), no end game...it can only get worse. The Feds have succeed in Scr....wing US.
bottom line - Do we really add value to the society here?
convince the people and this will be the ONLY solution to our problems.
This is only my view...
As the saying goes..."Justice delayed is Justice Denied"
Considering our opportunity cost, many of us may be better off packing our bags and heading back - this may have an impact on the feds, the companies and people at large who think that WE are a burden on the society. All these artificial barriers and hurdles are a reflection of this.
Its quite apparent that there is no end game in sight, there is no motive here(ref to subash and gandhi message by asharda), no end game...it can only get worse. The Feds have succeed in Scr....wing US.
bottom line - Do we really add value to the society here?
convince the people and this will be the ONLY solution to our problems.
more...
pictures terminator salvation arnold
mbawa2574
07-07 07:47 PM
Can Patton Boggs do better? Haven't we had more legislative success, I mean traction, when we partnered with Quinn Gillespie? Are we receiving sound advice on which of our grievances require legislative action and which ones can be redressed by a mere change in policy on the part of the executive? It looks like most of our current problems were not ushered in by any new law, but rather by a stroke of a pen in a memo by the incompetent and indifferent INS, USCIS, DOL and the State Department. No change in law was needed to make then deny us concurrent filing in Oct 2005 and allow it in July 2007. No change in law was required to deny us visa revalidation. One could argue that no change in law is required to belatedly use unused visas from the previous years. The list goes on. It should be easier to lobby a handful of buffoons in the executive branch with real power than 500+ buffoons on Capitol Hill. Has Patton Boggs served us well?
We are hitting the wrong doors. We are not doing anything which gives us some visibility with media and politicians or administration. Time is running out guys
We are hitting the wrong doors. We are not doing anything which gives us some visibility with media and politicians or administration. Time is running out guys
dresses Terminator Salvation: The
eb3_nepa
07-14 06:22 PM
Silly question but I need an answer :)...How can I use Bill pay here? I bank with BOA and it asks for a company name if I choose bill pay...
The company name can be Immigration Voice. Normally you do not need an account number per se, although you COULD try and put in your IV handle as the acct number if it allows non numeric characters in the acct number.
A lot of people have used BOA, can someone guide zoooom please
The company name can be Immigration Voice. Normally you do not need an account number per se, although you COULD try and put in your IV handle as the acct number if it allows non numeric characters in the acct number.
A lot of people have used BOA, can someone guide zoooom please
more...
makeup According to Deadline , Arnold
transpass
09-12 10:19 AM
Hi Bawa,
Your idea is good to but please be also open to other ideas. You don't know what will fail or pass. The prime objective is to attract media attention, in other words "give them something to talk about". What flower campaing did last year was exactly that...Can we achieve the same thing with Book or Calculators or Clock or Poster, we need to figure that out!
How about each one of us does whatever is suitable with common theme being similar letter/concern etc. If we choose clock/cal etc. shortly we will run out them at sites such as amazon, etc. Anyway only some of us will be able to do it...But flowers, letters, fliers are limitless and everyone can send...
So my suggestion is --draft a common themed letter and send the letter along with whatever anyone chooses to send along (with clock, cal, flier or simply letter. But please make sure the fliers are not offensive)...
Your idea is good to but please be also open to other ideas. You don't know what will fail or pass. The prime objective is to attract media attention, in other words "give them something to talk about". What flower campaing did last year was exactly that...Can we achieve the same thing with Book or Calculators or Clock or Poster, we need to figure that out!
How about each one of us does whatever is suitable with common theme being similar letter/concern etc. If we choose clock/cal etc. shortly we will run out them at sites such as amazon, etc. Anyway only some of us will be able to do it...But flowers, letters, fliers are limitless and everyone can send...
So my suggestion is --draft a common themed letter and send the letter along with whatever anyone chooses to send along (with clock, cal, flier or simply letter. But please make sure the fliers are not offensive)...
girlfriend Arnold Schwarzenegger
santb1975
05-22 07:58 AM
Good suggestion
Come forward and contribute for your own cause.
Come forward and contribute for your own cause.
hairstyles Terminator Salvation: arnold
manderson
01-07 03:00 PM
My wife is still waiting for the AP. The receipt notice gives August 6 as the receipt date. She called USCIS last Tuesday and was told that USCIS is running really slow and is taking 180 days to process APs. The lady she spoke to asked my wife to call back after "it is 180 days past her notice date". Her 180 days will complete on February 6. We have postponed out travel plans several times.
is this NSC or TSC?
is this NSC or TSC?
jimytomy
04-12 06:45 AM
How long it takes to get 140 approved in premium?
Officially 15 days. But according track itt website , it is taking at the most 8 or 9 days.
Officially 15 days. But according track itt website , it is taking at the most 8 or 9 days.
raysaikat
01-06 12:35 AM
Couldn't agree more - especially about paying for ANY college here vs. in India.
I studied in IIT (B.Tech), got M.S. and Ph.D. from here and now a professor. My observations/opinions are as follows:
1. Up to class XII, Indian schools are good. However, there are certain fundamental differences. Indian schools teach more material and sometimes more challenging material than U.S. schools. However, the majority of the students end up merely "remembering" and not learning; even in sciences. In general, an average student from an Indian school system would "know" more than an average student from an U.S. high-school, although in my view such "knowledge" (remembering something as a "data") is worthless. However, U.S. school system tends not to kill the curiosity and creativity of the students, which Indian system does. For good and brilliant students, however, there is no clear trend; you can get excellent and creative students from both systems.
2. There are a handful of fine undergraduate institutes in India. The names comes to my mind are IITs, some RECs (Trichi used to be good), Jadavpur Univ., Roorkie, BHU, etc. (although IITs remain at a level higher than the rest). If you include maths, then count ISI's, which are better than IITs. The rest are just crappy. And I know how crappy can they be from my experience. I have the misfortune of teaching 100's of students who come here with an Anna University (or Osmania) B.Tech./B.E. degree in engineering, and knows absolutely nothing. And I am not exaggerating: they cannot write an elementary program in any language (apparently they learn something called "theoretical" computer programming in which they do not actually learn to program); does not know any mathematics (most cannot integrate x*exp(x); one student could not tell me what is f(0.7) by looking at a graph of x vs. f(x)) and cannot operate simple lab equipments. It is just unbelievable! Anyway, moving on.
3. M.S. onwards, Indian Universities are bad. The only quality Institute in India in Engineering at the M.S. level is IISc. You have some more in other science related disciplines like TIFR (not sure if they give M.S. degree). IITs are not good at the M.S. level and beyond (in case you did not know: M.S. students in IITs are called "Matka"s and professors never grade M.S. students in the same scale with the B.Tech students in the fear that most M.S. student would then fail! And this indeed happened; true story.).
There is indeed a severe dearth of qualified Ph.D. graduates in India. I had spoken with the director of Bell Labs in India and he finds it very difficult to find people who can work in R/D as a profession
The basic problem is finding qualified teaching staffs. Professor's salaries, even in IITs, are about 7-10 times lower than what a qualified person with an equivalent degree currently gets in Industry. No wonder they cannot find faculty members (I have---well, at least had---an open faculty position offer from the director of an IIT; they are desperate for good persons). The compensation gap is too large, even considering nice faculty housing in a good place and good community for your family inside the IIT.
By the way, no doubt there are crappy universities in the U.S. as well; especially at the M.S. level since there is no accreditation at the M.S. level.
I studied in IIT (B.Tech), got M.S. and Ph.D. from here and now a professor. My observations/opinions are as follows:
1. Up to class XII, Indian schools are good. However, there are certain fundamental differences. Indian schools teach more material and sometimes more challenging material than U.S. schools. However, the majority of the students end up merely "remembering" and not learning; even in sciences. In general, an average student from an Indian school system would "know" more than an average student from an U.S. high-school, although in my view such "knowledge" (remembering something as a "data") is worthless. However, U.S. school system tends not to kill the curiosity and creativity of the students, which Indian system does. For good and brilliant students, however, there is no clear trend; you can get excellent and creative students from both systems.
2. There are a handful of fine undergraduate institutes in India. The names comes to my mind are IITs, some RECs (Trichi used to be good), Jadavpur Univ., Roorkie, BHU, etc. (although IITs remain at a level higher than the rest). If you include maths, then count ISI's, which are better than IITs. The rest are just crappy. And I know how crappy can they be from my experience. I have the misfortune of teaching 100's of students who come here with an Anna University (or Osmania) B.Tech./B.E. degree in engineering, and knows absolutely nothing. And I am not exaggerating: they cannot write an elementary program in any language (apparently they learn something called "theoretical" computer programming in which they do not actually learn to program); does not know any mathematics (most cannot integrate x*exp(x); one student could not tell me what is f(0.7) by looking at a graph of x vs. f(x)) and cannot operate simple lab equipments. It is just unbelievable! Anyway, moving on.
3. M.S. onwards, Indian Universities are bad. The only quality Institute in India in Engineering at the M.S. level is IISc. You have some more in other science related disciplines like TIFR (not sure if they give M.S. degree). IITs are not good at the M.S. level and beyond (in case you did not know: M.S. students in IITs are called "Matka"s and professors never grade M.S. students in the same scale with the B.Tech students in the fear that most M.S. student would then fail! And this indeed happened; true story.).
There is indeed a severe dearth of qualified Ph.D. graduates in India. I had spoken with the director of Bell Labs in India and he finds it very difficult to find people who can work in R/D as a profession
The basic problem is finding qualified teaching staffs. Professor's salaries, even in IITs, are about 7-10 times lower than what a qualified person with an equivalent degree currently gets in Industry. No wonder they cannot find faculty members (I have---well, at least had---an open faculty position offer from the director of an IIT; they are desperate for good persons). The compensation gap is too large, even considering nice faculty housing in a good place and good community for your family inside the IIT.
By the way, no doubt there are crappy universities in the U.S. as well; especially at the M.S. level since there is no accreditation at the M.S. level.
No comments:
Post a Comment